‘Torchwood’ – A Chance For Fans To Speak Out About A Possible Return

07 Oct

‘Torchwood’ – A Chance For Fans To Speak Out About A Possible Return.

An article I wrote for

Classic Torchwood

According to STARZ CEO Chris Albrecht, ‘Torchwood’ fans may finally be able to look forward to a return. Much of ‘Torchwood’s future still depends upon Russell T. Davies’ availability amongst his heavy workload.

‘Torchwood’ stars Eve Myles and John Barrowman expressed their desire to return to the show once the decision has been made. In a statement from Myles when asked if the show was returning, she was quoted as saying:

“We don’t know. I just know John Barrowman and I would agree to do more episodes.”

Davies has taken a considerable amount of flack over his decision making process with the path ‘Torchwood’ has taken. A large portion of the ‘Torchwood’ fan base prefers the original programming style that was based in Cardiff surrounded by the characters the fans grew to love.

Torchwood's Eve Myles and John Barrowman.If we use common sense, and simply read the forums and comments fans have made over the years, the smart money lies in the bringing back of what is now referred to as “Classic Torchwood.” STARZ did indeed bring new fans to the franchise, but the bulk of viewers lies in the original content.

I myself understand the creators ideals concerning the show – however, it all comes down to money. The obvious choice would be to simply listen to the fans, and provide us with that which we most desire; Go back to Cardiff, and being a science fiction show, find some “wibbly wobbly timey wimey” excuse to bring back Ianto Jones and the rest of the cast we came to love.

The ‘Torchwood’ fans are forgiving to a point, but make it good. We expect a thoughtful storyline, and most importantly, it simply must adhere to the existing timeline. The writers will be required to do their research, any diversion from canon will be met with… resistance from die-hard fans.

Russell T. Davies was recently forced to put several of his projects on hold when his partner was diagnosed with brain cancer. I myself have had a loved one suffer from this, and I wish a speedy recovery to Andrew Smith.

I ask now of fans of ‘Torchwood’ and alike, if your comments we’re to be heard by Davies, the BBC and STARZ, what would you say? And let me just say this; “you attract more flies with honey, than with vinegar.” In other words, I know many fans are… upset, about the path ‘Torchwood’ has taken, but constructive criticism will be met with much less resistance than spouting obscenities. Simply tell us, in your own words, what you would like to see in a return of ‘Torchwood.’ Simply add your comment below, and you never know, perhaps someone out there will be listening!


49 responses to “‘Torchwood’ – A Chance For Fans To Speak Out About A Possible Return

  1. Myfanwy

    October 7, 2012 at 7:03 pm

    Tbh, I’m over it and I just hope it stay’s dead. I’ve been trying to give constructive criticism ever since Children of Earth aired. All I’ve gotten for my trouble has been being insulted and accused by producers and creators of the show. It feels to me as if those people can’t take criticism, maybe can’t deal with it, and I’ve come to the decision that they don’t deserve me as a fan and neither do they need my support and money. Russell T. Davies said himself that he needs viewers and not fans.

    On top of that I’m sick and tired of some people connected to the production, trying to fool me into watching, reading or buying stuff I don’t want, but promoting it with lies and false promises that won’t keep.

    I miss the old Torchwood in Cardiff, Tosh, Owen, Ianto, Weevils and that pterodactyl but I’ve accepted that I can’t have that back and moved on to other shows. The Torchwood I loved will live on in fanfiction and, frankly, that’s the only version of Torchwood I’m still interested in.

    I hope this doesn’t sound harsh, but it’s the only thing I have to say to the producers, writers and remaining actors.

  2. J. Heade

    October 7, 2012 at 7:03 pm

    The only way I even want the show back is if there is a reset to the end of season 2. Everything after that was rubbish. I also am not sure I’d bother to watch it if Russell T. Davies is still producing it since he has shown that he doesn’t value fans of the show in any way, shape or form. He ruined my once very great love for the show by being rude and condescending to all the folks who didn’t like the direction the show took from Children of Earth onward. If it continues on the path it has taken the last two series there is no way on earth that I will watch, just as I refused to watch Miracle Day.

  3. jackie

    October 7, 2012 at 7:12 pm

    Well, if TPTB must keep CoE and MD as canon then find a way to bring back Owen, Ianto and Tosh that doesn’t erase those latter shows. Maybe an AU where series 2 ends different, everyone still alive EXCEPT Jack and Gwen etc and these 2 groups have experienced the last two series just differently. How would those 3 have carried on? Would they have done what Jack had to do or something else? How would these two seperate, unique teams work together?

    But really, reset is a better option. 🙂

  4. nan00se

    October 7, 2012 at 7:52 pm

    not sure what happened to my comment but if this is a repeat can you please delete it.

    I have a delemma in that I am no longer sure that I want Torchwood to return as it no longer resembles tht TV show i loved and I do not want to invest time in another dissapointment.

    My wish list would be
    .A return to the wiity quirky dialogue of the original series
    .Less focus on CJ/Gwen which is becomign a real inpedimenT to watching for me and
    .A return to an ensemble team with charactors we can get to know flaws and all.I am getting
    tired of writers who kil poplular charactors off for dramatic effect-surely there are more innovative
    plot devices which can be used to create dramatic flourish
    .As much as I would love a return to the old team i have doubts re feasibilty-it would take some
    ingeneous and inventive writing
    . A return to the UK
    .A return to the old production values-toned down acting and more subtlety in direction
    .Continue with the overarching stories but intermingle it with some one of storylines that give us a
    change in tone
    .I really do not care who the show ruuner is but I always liked Chris Chibnals episodes and really
    enjoye his recent witty episode in Who

  5. DVanB

    October 7, 2012 at 10:39 pm

    The Torchwood I love was gutted, & destroyed, the character’s killed off or rendered so Out-of-character that to say I could have a say about a Torchwood return is kind of a two prong joke

    On one hand we haven’t seen the Torchwood the fans loved since season 2

    And on the other many fans asked for Ianto’s return…TPTB never felt they needed to listen; even as far as saying they didn’t need us/all they needed were viewers–Would they listen now?

    Their only requirements were to watch and to trust them– Well’ trust has always been a two way street; we were the fans we knew what was working/and what wasn’t

    They should have trusted us and perhaps had they we wouldn’t be now asking this question…

    What would it take to get my trust back if I thought for a second TPTB would listen?
    The show set in Cardiff…not in LA,
    Jack back as its center…no more Gwen-centric stories,
    episode driven…no more long drawn-out story arcs
    charcters you care about…honetly MD was there anybody you could liked?
    AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST….the return of IANTO; he is a lynchpin character that should never have been pulled

  6. bri

    October 8, 2012 at 3:54 am

    Hello there.

    I have some doubts about an eventul return of Torchwood. The show I loved doesn’t exist anymore, the charcters I loved are dead or destroyed beyond repair, so.

    If really TW could come back, then it must come back in the old format:

    – No more Russell Davies. I will not watch TW if he is still at the helm of the show. It doesn’t matter if the old characters are brought back. Davies will just ruin them even more then he has already done;
    – a whole series with the monster of the week, witty stories where drama, hopes and humor can coexist, a good story teller is the one who can write drama, suspence, action, etc without killing of the characters every week;
    – Cardiff and the Hub are a must;
    – the old team, Ianto, Tosh and Owen maybe with the adding of some new characters;
    – Jack as a competent leader and center character of the show;
    – no more Gwen-centric stories, actually if really we have to keep Gwen (it would be best if we could get rid of her), then she must be toned down a lot, with a lot less on-screen time;
    – possibly an improvement on the writing department, no more long, boring story-arc (MD was stupid, awful and badly written).

    I agree with what Myfanwy wrote here, please no accusing and insulting the fans just because they didn’t like the direction the show has taken, if the writers, producers, TPTB can’t take constructive criticism, then maybe they need to find a different job.

    • Myfanwy

      October 8, 2012 at 4:42 am

      See I get that a writer has to write is story and can’t please all fans, that happens with each and every show out there, sometimes viewers and fans are just unhappy. But that is not what has happened with Torchwood, no matter how hard some of their PTB try to make it look like that. As if it is just “the crazy Ianto fans trying to stir up some ****”. I admit Ianto was the character I liked the most too and his return is probably the only thing out there that would maybe, just maybe, have my interest, but it’s by far the only thing that ruined Torchwood. I think if it had been only Ianto I would have been very sad but would have kept watching. Most of the original cast is gone and, even worse, got replace in Miracle Day with pale characters that were either annoying or boring. The only interesting one was Vera and she went where ever interesting Torchwood character goes far too soon. I miss Tosh and Owen, both complex characters acted very well. I really miss Ianto, played by the brilliant Gareth David-Lloyd. I miss the Jack I used to know, because he is no longer that character. I also miss Cardiff, unique and different and…well Welsh. The SUV, the underground base, the pterodactyl, Weevils and the blowfish in a sportscar. The only character I wouldn’t miss at all is Gwen. I’ve seen way too much of her already and I could never really connect with her. She seems selfish and spoiled to me. She has no value for what she has (Rhys, her life outside Torchwood, her coworkers…) and she is the only one who always gets a happy ending, it’s just unfair.

      I have lost hope though, the (remaining) cast and crew has shown more the once that they only want fans who won’t criticise their work at all. They are only interested in viewers who tell them 24/7 how brilliant they are. Sadly they are not. Torchwood was never brilliant television, but it used to be fun, it used to be something to look forward to after an awful day at work, you know?
      But then Davies decided that the show has to be the new X-Files and sorry, but that’s like comparing caviar with a fish burger.

      Davies has shown more then once that he get’s bitter when he doesn’t get things his way, which leads me to fear that if the BBC or who ever orders a new season of “Classic Torchwood”, with the old beloved characters back, it won’t be enjoyable at all.

      • bri

        October 8, 2012 at 5:11 am

        You know, I think that a good story teller is the one who is able to write the story he/she wants to tell with the characters he/she wants to use in a way that the fans/viewers/audience will like it and will want more.

        A show must “evolve and try something new” to keep the audience interested, it always depends on what meaning we give to the words “evolve” and “try something new”. If you take the show far too away from its roots, forgetting everything about past canon, forgetting in which “universe” the show exist, then said show becomes something different, something new (maybe good maybe not), but it isn’t the show people loved anymore.

        I always make this example. If a new writer, a very good one, became the new DW showrunner, and started to write new stories, very good stories, but in doing so took away the Tardis, the fact that the Doctor is an alien who can regenerate and travel aroud in time and space with companions saving the universe, would you still call this show DW?

        This is what happended with TW. No more Cardiff; no more Hub, weevils, aliens, Myfanwy; no more TW team (Ianto, Tosh, Owen), no more a competent, skilled, fun/dark, leader Jack.
        We have been left with an unrecognizable Jack, a cold heartless b*****d, an incompetent idiot, a whining, emotive prostitute, and miss Gwen “MarySue-teflon-hollier then thou” Cooper, one of the worst fictional character I have ever seen.

        CoE was bad (stupid story, badly writtern, full of plotholes) and MD was even worse, because in addition to being a stupid offensive story, badly writtern and full of plotholes, it also completely disregarded past DW and TW canon (particularly about Jack past).
        The writers didn’t do they homerworks, they believed that just because we are sci-fy fans they could throw at us wathever crap and we would have been happy.

        I can forgive a lot if I like a show, but I’m not a brainless, blind sheep.

        • Myfanwy

          October 8, 2012 at 6:12 am

          True, Torchwood was always better when it was “monster of the week”, world wide stories-that’s a shoe too big for them. I refuse to believe that every nation, from China to the USA and from Russia to all those states run by religious parties in the middle east would agree to give up 10% of their children within 4 days. CoE would have been only half as laughable if they would have focused on the UK alone. The aliens have been there before and have gotten what the wanted, now they’re back for more. and trying to hide that from the rest of the world (UNIT!) would have given those boring politicians something useful to do.
          Now Miracle Day…well the plot was a big laugh from the very beginning. If people would no longer die, well, it wouldn’t cause overpopulation so fast that we need to have RTDs “camps” within weeks. A quick check on google will tell everyone that there are already so much more people being born then die on this planet each day, if people wouldn’t die any more it would only speed up trouble we are heading for already on long term. Besides I find the idea that every nation would just go and cremate living, sick, people, disgusting, that’s not the Whoniverse Earth any more, the one that the Doctor loves and thinks is worth saving over and over again.
          Speaking of him, where is he? I get that he might miss one event because it’s a fixed point, but, I’ve read that Barrowman’s new TW novel features the third world wide event in a row, and it begins to feel like a bad joke to somebody like me, who came to Torchwood via Doctor Who.

  7. thirtythreeandme

    October 8, 2012 at 9:19 am

    What could they bring back; it has not been Torchwood since the last episode of Series 2. If Starz wanted to do real Sci Fi, they would pick up after Series 2 and before CoE, and continue on from there. That won’t happen, so I will just mourn a show I loved, and never believe anything anyone says about the show coming back. As for using Ianto’s good name to benefit themselves, well that is just unethical. It will always be our loss and there’s.

  8. shaz

    October 8, 2012 at 11:42 am

    When ever I read any news that Torchwood may be returning to our screens all I can feel is an overwhelming sense of dread, which is very sad when you consider that the same news a few years ago would have had me jumping up and down and whooping for joy. For me, there’s just too much water under the bridge now. The writers, producers and to some extent the actors cared little for what fans had to say in 2009/2010, that is unless they were the kind of sycophantic fans who told what they wanted to hear. The fact is Davies took a wrong turn with Torchwood when he decided that it would be his springboard to fame in America. He tried to shoehorn it in to something that it wasn’t. Something that would appeal to a new US audience and at the same time appease, (read throw a few crumbs to), the existing British audience. It was a cross between the xfiles, 24 and one of those camp British sci-fi dramas that was Torchwood under Chris Chibnall. Unfortunately for Davies it didn’t work. The other writers didn’t understand the genre and didn’t do their homework, the plot wasn’t just ridiculous which could have been forgiven, as some of the best Doctor Who and classic Torchwood scripts are just as ridiculous, it was laughable and a lot of the time cringeworthingly so. The ‘one liners’ tried too hard to be funny on both sides of the water and ended up being not funny on either. Torchwood is dead to me now. There’s is nothing the powers that be can do to get me excited about the prospect of it returning. Having said that, I might, and I mean might, be persuaded to watch if Davies is not involved, or perhaps only involved in an executive position as he was with series one and two, if they find a credible way to bring back Ianto, and If they can promise me that Jack will be back to his former self, ie the flirty, funny, loyal, dedicated, charismatic, easy loving kind of guy he was in series one and two, not the dark, sex obsessed, whining, whinging, incompetent, taking a back seat idiot we had in series four. I wouldn’t be excited by it, rather I’d be watching full of trepidation, with fingers crossed and hoping for the best, but I’d be watching. Anything less than this and it would be a thanks but no thanks from me.

  9. Gravitule

    October 8, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    Bryan, you wrote exactly what I most desire:

    “Go back to Cardiff, and being a science fiction show, find some “wibbly wobbly timey wimey” excuse to bring back Ianto Jones and the rest of the cast we came to love.

    The ‘Torchwood’ fans are forgiving to a point, but make it good. We expect a thoughtful storyline, and most importantly, it simply must adhere to the existing timeline. The writers will be required to do their research, any diversion from canon will be met with… resistance from die-hard fans.”

    Nothing more to add except that I will never watch a new season and will never advertise it if Ianto is not back to his Captain.


    • Nyrhalahotep

      October 8, 2012 at 1:36 pm

      Thank you so much! It seems to be everyone’s ultimate solution, and if it were ME in the drivers seat – I’d MAKE it happen.

      Thanks to ALL for the great comments!!

  10. Jo

    October 9, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    Recipe for great Torchwood –

    Add 1 Ianto
    Mix with loads of Welsh goodness
    Sprinkle with copius Tosh and Owen
    Use a tiny, TINY amount of Gwen
    Remove all traces of RTD before baking

  11. Taffy

    October 9, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    As so many have said – bring back Torchwood – the real Torchwood of S1 and S2, the 26 episodes that built the Torchwood universe. The most recent two season, well, weren’t Torchwood. I might watch again if RTD weren’t involved and if TW returned to its roots, in Cardiff, with engaging, interesting characters and engaging, interesting character interaction. (I’d be even more inclined to watch if Gwen decided to go off and play happy families anywhere else and never return – I never could connect with her character…she was way too much of the whiney and the spoiled-brat and the no visible character growth for me.)

    Sadly, I doubt I’ll ever see the TW that I enjoyed again. If “more Torchwood” is more of what’s been put on the screen under the Torchwood name, then I definitely won’t be watching. Hint to TPTB: If you want to make a show that’s not Torchwood, then for goodness sake, call it something else. Just because someone slaps the word “Torchwood” in the title of any given script and awkwardly shoehorns in a couple of former Torchwood actors doesn’t make that script a part of the Torchwood universe. No matter what your own name is.

  12. David

    October 9, 2012 at 8:49 pm

    I just want Torchwood again.
    Any decision of Davies will be the right one. TW is his creature, he should do what he really wants.

  13. Laura

    October 9, 2012 at 10:01 pm

    To whom it may concern,

    I frequently attend Doctor Who conventions, and I’ve been lucky enough to speak to several people involved with the show and fandom (Robert Shearman and Tony Lee have been especially kind to me in particular). I think I’ve managed to exemplify the “more flies with honey” motto, and would be happy to speak pleasantly to anyone about our differing opinions on the show. If there’s a search for reasonable or intellectual discussion, please feel free to write to me at (though I won’t expect anyone, lol).

    I can’t begin to imagine what Mr. Davies is going through, and he has my deepest sympathies. It’s so personal that I wouldn’t even mention it if it didn’t seem inappropriate to leave it unsaid.

    As far as the show is concerned, I would definitely love a “timey wimey” way to bring Ianto back, and the rest of the original cast at that. I disagree that it would lessen the emotional impact of his death, though it’s possible anyone who felt that way is probably less affected by his death now anyway. Honestly, the Doctor Who/Torchwood fandom has never needed a reason to do what they want; if anything, that’s the signature of many science-fiction shows. The “science-fiction” part applies to the plot, and the true appeal of the story is the characters and drama that comes along with “human” interaction. People loved Ianto because of who he was, and they loved Jack and Ianto particularly because of how completely original their relationship was. I’ve watched tons of shows with relationships that aren’t hetero-normative, but Torchwood did it best. Torchwood was making television history, and it meant so much to many fans, myself included. I can at least speak for the people I’ve seen in forums and communities, and that’s easily numbering in the thousands (there are community account lists, you can check my figures).

    If fiction is only a pastime to a person, I can imagine that it’s difficult to empathize with those of us who are very passionate about it. “Fan” has always been a difficult role to fill without alienating others, and I can honestly understand how unusual we can seem sometimes. That being said, relating to people on screen is important to viewers (each for our own reasons). If it’s unfair for me to speak for others, I’ll just say that Ianto and Jack in particular meant a lot to me, and I’ll always think it is a tragedy if their story continues to have the end that it had.

    I’ve gone on too much, but I’ll just say once more that I’m more than happy to take the time to speak to anyone who’d like to do so. Thank you for your time.


    • Nyrhalahotep

      October 9, 2012 at 11:45 pm

      So eloquently said Laura. So much hate has been spewed forth towards Russel in regards to the direction Torchwood has taken.
      It’s simply a pleasure to hear kind and thoughtful words on the subject.

      • Laura

        October 9, 2012 at 11:48 pm

        I’m very glad you think so! I only hope for more chances to be heard. Thank you very much for this one, I deeply appreciate it.

        • Nyrhalahotep

          October 9, 2012 at 11:53 pm

          You, as well as all Torchwood fans, are most welcome here always!
          With my fans, there would be no need for this blog. I encourage honest ideas and opinions, good OR bad.
          Thank you all!

          Cheers, Bryan

      • bri

        October 10, 2012 at 4:15 am

        I think I need to explain a couple of things.

        I don’t hate Russell Davies, I don’t know the man, never met him. I’m not here criticising his personal life. I’m here to criticise his works, his writing style, the decisions he has taken regarding the stories and the characters featured in his shows (not only Torchwood).

        Me and other people may sound harsh and maybe sometimes even rude towards him, but you know and remember that he didn’t keep a polite and civil behavior, he called the people who watched his shows “a bunch of ming mongs”, “hysterical women”, “people who don’t understand real serious drama should go watching Supernatural and reading poetry”, “I don’t need fans but just viewers” and so on.

        It is perfectly normal to be miffed if/when someone criticizes our job, our work, but it always depends on how you react to criticisme. Davies becomes very nasty when someone dares to criticize him. I know that somes who made the critics have been nasty as well and that is wrong, but he is a public figure and should know better then alienate his audience.

        In the end Russell Davies, with all the things he said and did, made his bed, now he has to lie in it.

        • Myfanwy

          October 10, 2012 at 5:17 am

          Exactly. I’ve never met RTD, too. And I wouldn’t lower myself to his level and judge the personal life of people I have never met. I remember discussing the “can’t understand real serious drama” thing with other fans and it turned out that many of them actually knew very well what “drama” is, some of them even had lost children or their partner to an illness or accident. Ianto’s lazy written death (Helloho, virus puking alien? Protection gear anyone?) is more a laughable soap opera compared to what those people went through.

          When it comes to his work, though, then he has to face criticism like everyone else does, no matter if it is justified or not, it will happen again and again and being good at you job also means to accept it, consider it and maybe take a lesson from it.

          If I would throw a hiss fit like he did so many times after being criticised at work, I would be out of job within the hour. Just because he’s a celebrity it doesn’t give him a wild card, right?

          • Myfanwy

            October 10, 2012 at 5:54 am

            Oh and Supernatural, I think it’s funny that Mr.Davies thinks his show is better then that one when it comes to drama, because I think Kripke and the people who took over after he left have understood that killing off characters alone is wasting potential when it comes to Sci-Fi/Fantasy/Horror. If lost count of how many times the Winchesters died and came back, but each and every time it add’s a new twist to the relationship between those two brothers. The same goes for guest and recurring roles, their mother, who was killed if the very first minutes of the show turns out to be the important key character 5 or 6 seasons later. And I was sitting there speechless and in awe.
            Just imagine for a second Ianto reviving minutes after Jack killed Steven and left earth. An Ianto who has to rebuild Torchwood on his own, his only help a pregnant women, and who just heard a “don’t” in answer to “I love you” while dying. Make Jack, a few 100 years have passed for him, come back a few months later in earth time and…oh the possibilities of drama and heartbreak you could put those characters through.

            Then there’s Gwen. Not the most beloved character around. Supernatural had one like that too early on. Jo. But TPTB a) made little changes to her character over time and in the end, when she died, people were in tears. With Gwen it’s more TPTB trying to force the fans to love a character that hasn’t learned a single thing from her mistakes and is still selfish and manipulating.

            Last but not least interaction with the fans. Kripke and co have always done what they wanted to do, but they also know how to please the fans with little inside jokes and hints in their show. They have realized that their fans are important and that they need to vow them every now and then to keep them around. They play with them and spoilers, but they have never openly lied like RTD, Julie Gardner and John Barrowman did at Comic Con, when they were asked about the rumours about Ianto dying in CoE. They told those fans that they would be happy, the future would be “Janto” and they even spoke about marriage. Where they so desperate for viewers that a “wait and see” wouldn’t have been enough? The way it went people tuned in and got nothing of what they were promised. When Kripke left fans collected money to buy a page in a Hollywood magazine saying “Thank you for giving us this show”.

            Now I can’t help but wonder why RTD is getting so much stick instead?

        • shaz

          October 11, 2012 at 5:38 am

          As someone who is fighting their own battle with cancer, I feel I can comment with impunity. I’ve not seen or heard any comments that would suggest Davies is in any way at fault for his partner’s ilness. Nor have I seen any criticism of the way he handled the news. We are criticizing his body of work, not him directly or his personal life. There seems to be a phenomena surrounding a diagnosis of cancer which makes the cancer patient and everyone surrounding them untouchable but he’s the thing, cancer isn’t fussy. It doesn’t care if you are good or bad, rich or poor, if you’ve made mistakes in the past, or whether you are good at your job or not. I’m sorry, I don’t want to criticize anyone, I know people are simply reacting emotionally rather than rationally but the truth is Davies’s partner’s situation is deeply personal to him and not anyone else’s business. Please don’t take it personally but can I suggest that it should NEVER be discussed in a convo about Davies’s work.

          • Myfanwy

            October 11, 2012 at 10:17 am

            Good luck to you, I hope you’ll win this fight soon!

            The only criticism I have heard people voice about RTD’s decision to let Torchwood pause because for his partners illness was that they wondered why he is producing a new show for the BBC instead. Maybe it’s easier for him to work 100% in the UK right now (Starz still holds rights when it comes to TW). On the other hand TW has a crew and cast that has already worked together, personally, with no clue about the business, I would think it would be easy to produce more of that and supervise via the Internet from home.

            I wish the best to his partner (Andrew?), too.

  14. John

    October 10, 2012 at 1:10 am

    I agree with much of what has been said already. I absolutely loved classic Torchwood. Series 1 and Series 2 were really really good television. There was such perfect chemistry between the characters. Losing Owen and Toshiko in Series 2 hurt that dynamic a lot. Ianto’s death in Children of Earth finally broke the show for me. I bear no ill will towards those who enjoyed Miracle Day, but to me it just wasn’t the same show. It felt the same way Stargate SG-1 felt after we lost the original team.

    I know a lot of people were moved to tears by our losses in Series 2 and Children of Earth, our “exit wounds” if you will. Many of those same people would argue that bringing back Ianto, or Tosh, or Owen would somehow lessen the impact of their passing. Personally, I have never felt that bringing a character back cheapens their death. All the tears shed for them still fell.

    I always think of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan when people bring up the argument of cheapening a death. To this day, I still tear up when Spock and Kirk put their hands on the glass between them and Spock says, “I have been, and always shall be, your friend…” before collapsing. Even though I know Spock comes back in the next movie, it still hurts. The look of pain on Kirk’s face and his refusal to accept what has just happened are just so touching. Good drama will always be good drama. Even if Ianto, Tosh and Owen all come back and happier times lie in store for the Torchwood Scooby gang, it is never going to be easy to watch Ianto die or to watch Toshiko’s goodbye message. No matter how much Tosh’s video assured us it was okay, it will never feel that way. Those moments are always going to hurt. They are always going to remain powerful.

    Torchwood is in the Doctor Who universe, and while the show was often darker, I feel it is important to remember what a mad, impossible, beautiful place, the DW universe is. Since Ianto died, the universe has ended and it has been remade by a madman in a box and the little girl who waited for him. In the immortal words of the Doctor: “The universe is big, it’s vast and complicated, and ridiculous. And sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles.” I would love it if the impossible happened in the Torchwood universe. Let’s make Big Bang 2 bring the Hub back, bring Toshiko back, bring Owen back, bring Ianto back. We could even let them keep their memories, and watch them come to terms with everything. There is just so much more that could be done with these characters, and it feels like we lost them when we had only just gotten to know them.

    To quote Silence in the Library: “Everybody knows that everybody dies. But not every day. Not today. Some days are special. Some days are so, so blessed. Some days, nobody dies at all. Now and then, every once in a very long while, every day in a million days, when the wind stands fair, and the Doctor comes to call… everybody lives.” So many years ago we were introduced to the amazing Jack Harkness and we first heard the phrase: “everybody lives.” It seems only fitting for a return to form for Torchwood.

  15. Valerie

    October 10, 2012 at 5:27 am

    I am so sorry for RTD’s personal problems.A really bad time for him.

    Hoeever when it come to Torchwood. It’s a series that deALS WITH TIME. iF HE STOPPED BAD-MOUTHING THE FANS and brought back the situation as in the first 2 series, he nd the Beeb would have a real hit and money spinner on their hands. Look what hsppened with Star Trek because TPTB lisened to the fans. Of course, unlike RTD Gene Roddenberry valued and often acted on the fans’ input

  16. Eric Cohen (@ecDUVAL)

    October 10, 2012 at 8:35 am

    i know this out of left field, but maybe a perfect test for starz and bbc to gage interest in torchwood’s return would be to have captain jack ride along with matt smiths doctor for a few episodes, possibly build a new arc, i also had the idea of a torchwood with martha and mickey along with gwen being jacks new team a mix of (forgive me whatever martha’s division is unit?) and that be the new torchwood, back in cardiff for sure..for give me if i sound stupid..i am going on a year since started all these shows. it was just months ago with rose tyler and atttacking mannicans.

    • Myfanwy

      October 10, 2012 at 10:51 am

      It’s not stupid, it’s one of the things people were expecting after Children of Earth. And I think a new team, rebuild in Cardiff would have worked out way better then that trip to the USA did. Many old fans would have stayed away anyway but at least it would have been still Torchwood.

      Jack in Doctor Who, puh, difficult. I’m not sure if Moffat wants to touch that. Personally I can’t see Jack, after the way he was portrayed in CoE and MD just “jump back” into the character he was before on DW. Maybe they’ve just told me way too often that “bringing back characters” would cheapen the plot, this certainly would, even though I didn’t like where they took Jack’s character at all.

      I would like to see more of Jack in DW, because his story is far from finished. But not the present Jack. Maybe a younger version, if they can find an actor who fits, telling stories about the time between losing Grey and meeting 9. He would meet 11 and if Jack doesn’t find out who 11 is then technically he would meet the Doctor for the first time in London 1941, right?
      Or a much, much older version, maybe the story how “Barrowman” became a big face in a jar.

  17. rmc

    October 11, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    Torchwood reminds me of the 1970’s series the Tomorrow People. When the Tomorrow People reached the third series, I heard that Roger Price became bored with it and killed off the main characters in an effort to bring the show to a close. Fortunately the characters were revived and it continued to run for eight series in total!
    It seems to me that the same has happened with Torchwood. Come Season 3, two characters already killed off, it was time to kill off one more, destroy the base and vehicle, and the organisation was shut down. This to me says that Russell T Davies wants the series to end. It returns for a fourth series, but the story about a core through the centre of the earth, which contradicts several Doctor Who stories, and shifting it to America, is really an attempt to persuade people like me to lose interest.
    If Russell T Davies no longer wishes to be involved with Torchwood, then why not pass it over to someone else, who can continue it, in a similar way Doctor Who was? I for certain would like to see Torchwood return to Cardiff where it belongs, and to be shown in the same format as the first two series. What about exploring the mysterious Torchwood 4 which was never explained? There’s lots that could be done with it yet!

  18. weepyjester

    October 17, 2012 at 4:38 pm

    Owen and Tosh’s deaths were so tragically beautiful that bringing them back would totally cheapen them… I’m not particularly a fan of Ianto and thus, isn’t foaming at the mouth to want him revived. That said, I would vote for rebuilding a new team with more competent and likeable characters of course. Gwen Cooper is a character that I simply cannot connect with, much less bring myself to actually like. She represents the hypocrisy and everything not nice about humanity… if that is supposed to be a representation of the audience or of humanity, well, I am rather insulted.

  19. mtc

    October 17, 2012 at 6:31 pm

    There were enough explosions in ‘Exit Wounds’ that it could be explained away that everything that happened afterwards occured in an alternate timeline. In a proposed new series, Jack (front and centre please) with Ianto and Gwen (in a subordinate role that made sense) could rebuild a new team whilst dealing with the creatures and events that continued to stream through the rift as ‘the proper’ timeline struggled to right itself. Easy peasy. Great potential for drama as they struggle to rebuild Torchwood into a proper entity whilst dealing with scenario of the week plots.

  20. Tanja Valsted Jørgensen

    October 19, 2012 at 4:12 pm

    I don’t really know if this is the place to do this but I sort of hope someone can answer me. I have always wondered what Gwen’s position in Torchwood was, I mean what does she do? besides arguing with Jack and trying to sleep with him.
    Anyway if I should watch Torchwood again I would like if it went back to the middle of season 2 before Owen died and take it from there or as someone above stated make an alternative timeline where they did not die. The show was wonderful back then

    • Nyrhalahotep

      October 19, 2012 at 6:12 pm

      My thoughts are that Eve’s numbers looked strong as the show progressed. Thus convincing the BBC to increase her role and screen time.
      Her affair with Owen completely took away any respect I had for her character.

      • Sheree

        October 21, 2012 at 10:09 pm

        I have to disagree with you. Someone on another forum several years ago (after the first season came out on DVD) had submitted a list of the minutes per episode each character was predominantly featured. It must of taken her a long time; however, it showed that Gwen had more airtime per episode than even Jack. I don’t know if that is accurate but I know every time I looked at a scene she was always front and center. Eve stated that RTD wrote the role of Gwen Cooper for her. RTD in one of the discussions or whatever they call them at the end of one of the shows stated that if he had been a woman, he would have been Gwen. He had also admitted that the show was supposed to be about her but then he turned it into Torchwood.

        I have to agree with those who say she is the worst character on television. Her whining, shouting, unprofessionalism are just a few of the things I don’t like about her. Ianto was the one I could identify with. In fact, if I hadn’t watched the Sleeper episode of Torchwood (series 2 episode 2) and heard Ianto in the chair scene, I would have never have given Torchwood a chance. That scene caught my attention and made me want to watch more.

        • Myfanwy

          October 22, 2012 at 5:24 am

          The show RTD wanted to make but the BBC refused to produce, Excalibur, was about a young policewomen and mother who fights aliens. Sound familiar? Exactly. He slowly formed Torchwood into exactly that show. Jack was only an alibi judging by the way they destroyed his character ever since CoE.

          • Sheree

            October 23, 2012 at 9:50 pm

            He also admitted somewhere else that COE was not even Torchwood. He said it was a political thriller that he wrote, put away, and then dusted off (translation: no one would pay to have it made). He then rewrote it using the Torchwood characters and throwing in an alien. You could tell to. IMHO, it was the worst miniseries I had ever seen. The TW characters were the total opposites of the way they had been played for the previous series. Gwen was competent and took over as leader, Jack was brooding more than usual, treated Ianto badly, and hated “the word couple” while Ianto was kind of a whiny, “Jack, they think we’re a couple, too.” Plus RTD turned him into a liar about his father. I think he was more popular than Gwen so he had to go. Like RTD and Julie Gardner said once “you can’t rape Snow White” and “nothing bad with ever permanently happen to Gwen.”

            • Myfanwy

              October 25, 2012 at 5:52 am

              True, the “old” Jack would have probably made a show out of the word couple.
              Personally I had issues with Jack in CoE ever since he told Ianto: “You’ll die like an ugly dog.” Nice. That’s certainly not something I would say to my boyfriend. And in the end they want me to believe that Ianto’s death threw Jack off the bend badly? Sorry but up until “I’ll take it all back, anything but not HIM!” I saw nothing, NOTHING, that suggested that Ianto was more then a shag to Jack. And Jack’s grief left me stone cold, I didn’t feel sorry for him, it felt as if he got what he deserved,and if it wouldn’t have cost me another one of the characters I loved, I would have cheered. I That was so not the couple I knew and loved from the earlier series.

              And I agree, most people didn’t like Gwen, so RTD went and killed everyone else off. I remember all the protests after Ianto was killed off, people sending coffee and stuff, that Shrine that is still there, even a blind man couldn’t help but notice what people really want, but the Torchwood crew stubbornly refused to listen. Why? It was crystal clear that they were throwing away a bucket full of gold? Also if you take a look at the MD characters, they’re all lifeless and flat and boring, they probably didn’t want to risk somebody else getting in Gwen’s way again.

              • Sheree

                October 25, 2012 at 8:46 am

                And Rex is now immortal? Stupid. If it was Jack’s bodily fluids that made him immortal then Ianto, Alice, Steven, and any of Jack’s other lovers would all be immortal. I know RTD was proud of the fact that he didn’t have a canon “bible” but please, stick to some kind of continuity. It was the time vortex that made Jack immortal, not his blood.

                Another thing that bother me about COE (ok, what didn’t bother me about COE?) was the fact that Jack was a con man for years and Ianto had a criminal past (he did get caught once but how many times did he do things without getting caught) and yet Gwen had to teach them how to steal things? And then Gwen, heavily pregnant with her husband’s baby (or is it?) and trying to get Jack to stay on Earth for her? Everything was about her. Talk about one of the most selfish characters I’ve ever watched!

                • Myfanwy

                  October 25, 2012 at 4:04 pm

                  Ianto was a criminal mastermind, helloho? Getting Lisa out of Torchwood London in the middle of a Dalek/Cybermen attack only to hide her, completely with a cyber unit within Torchwood 3, can you imagine Gwen doing that?

                  What annoyed me about the “Immortality in the blood” thing was that it went against Doctor Who canon, that Jack is so unique and “wrong” that it hurts the Doctor to have him around and that he causes the Tardis to run to the end of the universe. And now, technically, Jack can reproduce like every common vampire out there?

                  That alone makes me which that new!Torchwood stays dead, because I fear the next thing RTD come up with is an immortal Gwen. Tbh I was surprised she didn’t end up in Rex’s role in MD.

                • Sheree

                  October 26, 2012 at 9:10 am

                  “What annoyed me about the “Immortality in the blood” thing was that it went against Doctor Who canon, that Jack is so unique and “wrong” that it hurts the Doctor to have him around and that he causes the Tardis to run to the end of the universe.”

                  RTD didn’t believe in a Torchwood “bible” why should he have a Doctor Who one? That’s one of the reasons I don’t think Jack should ever go back to DW. RTD has warped Jack so much that he no longer fits in the DW world or in the real TW world. For anyone who says Jack was not changed in COE, he let Rhys’ beans stop him from having sex with Ianto. Totally not-Jack.

                  As to Ianto, everything showed how intelligent and resourceful he was and yet in COE, not only is he now a liar in regards to his father but he was whiny, obsessed with getting Jack to comment on the fact people thought they were a couple, kind of emo and undecisive.

      • Myfanwy

        October 22, 2012 at 5:22 am

        It’s was not her affair that took away my respect for her character, it was that she wormed her way out of it by telling Rhys about it to, while already having him drugged so he would forget. That’s so cowardly, why do they want me to see her as my role model again?

        Anyway, her behaviour at her own wedding, almost kissing (fake-)Jack, goes to show that she doesn’t love and deserve Rhys. Gwen always getting away mostly unscratched while nobody else get’s a happy ending is the cherry on top for me.

        Tosh would have deserved a boyfriend like Rhys.
        Owen would have deserved to love again after losing his fiancèe.
        Jack and Ianto would have deserved more time together, even though both of them must have know that the would never have the chance to grow old together.
        Gwen? All she deserves is to face the consequences for all the things she screwed up. I wish Rhys would take the living-baby-bullet-vest she wore in Miracle Day and leave her before something terrible happens to Anwen.

        • Sheree

          October 22, 2012 at 8:56 pm

          I too hate the fact that she confessed after she drugged him. What makes the affair worse is she used Countrycide to justify it but that was the one case she could have told him about. She made such a big deal in Meat about having to lie to Rhys but the first time she lied was in the very first episode while she was still with the police.
          I have never seen anything worth emulating in her; in fact if I behaved as she did in the workplace I would have been fired. I never did see any skills she supposedly brought to Torchwood. She had only been with the police for 6 months and did a lot of the jobs Ianto did with less grace.

          • Myfanwy

            October 23, 2012 at 5:07 am

            True, Countrycide was probably the only Torchwood case she could have talked about to Rhys without any problem, after all the monsters were only human and basically it was more an exotic police case then something from out of space.

            • Sheree

              October 23, 2012 at 9:40 pm

              After all, the regular police force were the ones who came and took the cannibals away, as well as regular EMTs or paramedics helping the wounded. It would have made the news as well.

          • Tanja Jørgensen

            October 23, 2012 at 1:41 pm

            I never could understand the whole supposed humanity aspect she was supposed to have or why the team (and the audience) would ever believe she could be the heart of torchwood. it just never made any sense.
            and correctly my thought the one time she could talk about her case with Rhys she chose to talk and sleep with Owen instead.
            I don’t know if Torchwood started out with an overall story and plot but it didn’t seem like it since there are so many plot holes in the episodes but what attracted me to Torchwood was the characters and the chemestry between them (except from Gwen whom I wouldn’t mind dying). I would have loved to see more episodes centret on Ianto, Owen and Tosh. They all had interesting back stories and so many things could have been done with them instead the writers decided to go with the most annoying character on the show!

            • Sheree

              October 23, 2012 at 9:39 pm

              RTD said once (and I’m sorry but I can remember things said but not when) that Torchwood did not have a “bible” and that he didn’t believe in canon, so I think that’s why the stories had so many holes in them. If you really look at the show, it really wasn’t that good. The potential was there but it was never reached. Some writers seemed to write story lines where it looked like Gwen was great but at the same time she was incompetent and unprofessional. The writing was so uneven and no consistency between episodes.

              There were so many paths they could have taken, so many plots that they could have expanded on. The fairies could have been in several episodes. In Small Worlds, I think the time Jack’s troop killed a Chosen One was in 1909. I can’t remember the year of series 1 but it was nearly 100 years. Do they only take Chosen Ones every 100 years or so? What about the sleeper cell in Sleeper? Beth and the other guy died, does that mean Earth doesn’t have to worry about the sleeper cells or the aliens who created them again?

              Why was Gwen so childish, immature, and unprofessional in series 1, told Jack she lead the team in series 2 episode 1 (didn’t see any real proof of it though. In the very first scene she was giving orders and no one, especially Owen, was listening and obeying her), and then turned around in the rest of series 2 and acted the way she was acting in series 1? Plus in articles and interviews we were told she was second in command of Torchwood but nothing was ever said in the actual show. She really didn’t come across to me as having learned anything since she joined the team. She didn’t even know who/what UNIT was in Sleeper. By the second series, even as a mere agent, she should have known what UNIT was.

    • Sheree

      October 23, 2012 at 9:58 pm

      She was hired for her skills on the police force, which made no sense because she had only been with them 6 months. She was shown getting coffee and files, and patrolling with PC Andy. So I didn’t see any real skills. Also as police liasion (only saw Ianto do that a couple of times) and research (printed a whole stack of papers on Carys in series 1 episode 2 but she couldn’t find any information in them. Tosh was the one looked through them and discovered what they needed to know to find her). She tried to profile a couple of times but the attempts were laughable. I really never saw her do much except argue with Jack and act like she knew everything.

  21. Sheree

    October 23, 2012 at 10:09 pm

    I really haven’t answered the blog’s main purpose, so I’m sorry about that. I will now though.

    Torchwood for me died when Ianto did. I didn’t like Tosh and Owen dying, especially because of some insane boy. Jack’s freezing of him when he killed Ianto’s Lisa and sent Tosh’s Mary into the sun was typically Jack. However, the storyline was well-written and their deaths made some sense. Besides it was always Ianto I identified with. Children of Earth made no sense to me. If it had stayed a political thriller without Torchwood being squeezed into it, it might have been an okay story. The fact that Ianto died so stupidly (no protective gear but he wear a hard hat and vest to break Jack out of the cement), the way the characters were twisted to be almost the opposite of the way they were in series 1 and 2 did nothing to make me like COE any better. And the alien 456 was so laughable and an insult to all sci-fi aliens everywhere. Jack, my third favorite character after Ianto and Tosh, completely lost me after he murdered his grandson in episode 5. A further insult was delivered by Doctor Who in The End of Time when he pimped Jack out to Alonso.

    I had no interest in Miracle Day but read some of the synopses to it. I was so glad I didn’t waste my time on it. Torchwood is gone. Let it rest in peace.


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